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Dec 4, 2018 10:14 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Residents Ask For Vote To Add Armed Guards At Eastport-South Manor Schools

Mickey Byrnes and Peter McGuire with their petition documents. They collected 625 signatures to add a proposition to the Eastport South-Manor school district budget ballot for armed guards in schools. ANISAH ABDULLAH
Dec 4, 2018 1:37 PM

Two concerned parents in the Eastport-South Manor School District recently circulated a petition asking the School Board to add a proposition to next year’s school budget ballot: a referendum on adding armed security guards to the district’s schools.

Peter McGuire of Manorville and Mickey Byrnes of Manor Park collected 625 written signatures from district residents after knocking on doors and spending a day outside of the Manorville King Kullen. Other community members also helped get signatures on the petitions, which then were presented to the Board of Education.

The petition calls for adding a proposition to the ballot to approve the hiring of four to six trained armed guards for the five schools in the district. They created a Facebook page that promoted the petition and informed residents of when they were planning to be at King Kullen.

“The main reason for the armed guards is to reduce the response time during an emergency. It most likely won’t prevent them, but it will reduce the response time,” Mr. McGuire said.

The two men met earlier in the year, when they attended a School Board meeting in which members were discussing ways to allocate the district’s $2.2 million Smart Schools Bond state grant to improve infrastructure and security. They were dissatisfied with existing school security measures and wanted to voice their opinions on what could be done.

“With everything else that’s going on, I’d rather be proactive than reactive,” Mr. Byrnes said, referring to school shootings in the country and calls he has received from the superintendent on incidents at his daughter’s school. “I don’t want to be the person to sit there and get a phone call.”

Mr. McGuire, an accountant in Rocky Point, has two daughters, one in fifth grade and the other in eighth grade, and Mr. Byrnes, a detective for the New York Police Department, has a daughter in fifth grade.

The board formed a security committee in June not long after that initial meeting, co-chaired by board members Jeffrey Goldhammer and Marie Brown, and made up of community members, including Mr. McGuire and Mr. Byrnes. The two men said they felt that not enough steps were being taken by the committee, so they took matters into their own hands.

“The security of the children is not something that can wait. Something has to be done now,” Mr. McGuire said.

After presenting the idea to the School Board, the men said that members refused to vote on it themselves, but considered letting residents vote instead. However, the men were told that despite the number of signatures they get, the board will not be forced to add anything to the ballot.

They presented the 625 signatures at the November 14 board meeting, and members were “definitely more open to the policy of having armed guards outside of the school” than when the idea was first introduced, Mr. McGuire said.

To compare the number of signatures to the number of votes on the district budget, this year’s budget in May received 1,484 votes and last year’s budget received 1,244 votes.

Now, the men are reaching out to other schools on Long Island that have implemented armed guards and plan to present their findings at the January 9 board meeting.

Assistant Superintendent of Business Timothy Laube estimated the cost of having six full-time armed guards, plus one part-time officer to monitor after-school sports at the high school, at a base number of $470,600. He added that the cost is ultimately dependent on who wins the lowest bid and excludes possible staffing for summer programs and special events, like weekend sports games and graduations.

The high school currently has four to six unarmed guards monitoring the halls during the day, which Mr. Laube said they will keep regardless of whether a decision is made to add armed guards.

“We don’t want armed guards interacting with children,” Mr. Laube said. “If, for example, a fight broke out between students, armed guards would not intervene—unarmed guards would get involved in that situation.”

Superintendent of Schools Dr. Patrick Brimstein said that $1 million of the Smart Schools Bond funds will be used to install improved security cameras and glass-enclosed security booths at school entrances with ID scanners, among other enhancements. He added that the administration is constantly engaging with the Suffolk County Police Department, the Sheriff’s Department, Homeland Security and the Secret Service, whose officers are as equally concerned about school safety.

“Technology is one aspect of it, but we do need other aspects,” Mr. McGuire said, referring to armed guards.

Dr. Brimstein also said that they are planning to focus more on helping students with mental health issues and offer more social and emotional learning as a way to prevent potential school violence.

“My strong talking point is this: Proactive early intervention prevents violence,” he said. “There is a segment of the community that believes armed guards will be helpful. This is not a question of, are you for armed guards or safety? The question is, how do we best take from research and from officers and implement the best practices?”

Dr. Brimstein did not say whether he was in favor of bringing armed guards to the schools—he said the board would decide how to proceed and he will act accordingly. The board has not yet voted on whether to add the proposition to the ballot. Board members did not respond to requests for comment on the measure.

Some other schools on the East End have implemented either armed security guards or school resource officers assigned from local police departments to patrol school grounds. Many of them were added as a response to recent shoot shootings across the nation.

Montauk School added three armed guards in June, with only one on duty at a time. East Hampton School District has one SRO for the high school and another SRO for the middle and elementary schools, and Westhampton Beach School District has one SRO for its three schools.

“There is a sense of greater safety. All of my faculty have expressed that they feel safer,” Montauk School Superintendent J. Philip Perna said when asked about the benefits of having an armed guard. “Any parents who have spoken to me have always said that they appreciate that we have them.”

Westhampton Beach School Superintendent Michael Radday said he is pleased with their SRO program that began this school year. Unlike armed guards, SROs also provide educational services to the school’s student body.

“It’s going exceptionally well. Officer Andrew Kirwin is highly respected by our faculty and students,” Mr. Radday said. “Overall, it’s part of a comprehensive approach to school safety and security. But in a way, it’s much more than that. He acts as a liaison to faculty and staff as a school and community resource.”

Officer Kirwin has educated students in all grades on topics including stranger danger, social media danger and anti-bullying, Mr. Radday added.

Mr. Byrnes and Mr. McGuire said they also pursued the idea of SROs, but were told by Suffolk County Police that there was not enough personnel to assign officers to their school district. The Eastport-South Manor Central School District is split between the towns of Brookhaven and Southampton, but most of the campuses are in Brookhaven.

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Mistakes will be made.
:(
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (590), southampton on Dec 6, 18 7:47 AM
firearms in schools -- disgusting
By Aeshtron (222), Southampton on Dec 6, 18 8:35 AM
1 member liked this comment
So are drugs and gangs but schools don't seem to interested in stopping that; just covering it up. As long as the bloated administrations get their pensions and pay who cares, right?
By Preliator Lives (324), Obamavillie on Dec 6, 18 11:28 AM
1 member liked this comment
Why ? Is it OK to have armed guards at a bank or jewelry store ?
By Sturgis (468), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 7:52 AM
Banks and jewelry stores are not public institutions and, provided they're not bound by law, the public has no say in their private decisions.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 8:03 AM
Officer Kirwin has been great for WHB, students, parents and faculty. The school board, Southampton town and the WHB Village police all came together and put together a wonderful plan. A SRO position is my preferred choice when adding guards to a school. I hope ESM looks at that option. Huge Thank You to Chief Gonce as well.
By roydaleo (2), Westhampton Beach on Dec 6, 18 9:10 AM
It’s had been proven that metal detectors go a lot further than armed idiots. And yet....
By Brandon Quinn (164), Hampton Bays on Dec 6, 18 1:12 PM
Scot Peterson was one of three on-duty guards at Stoneman Douglas high school when Nikolas Cruz shot EIGHTEEN students to death. Scot Peterson was armed and wearing a bulletproof vest - he hid outside during the massacre, failing to promptly notify police and telling police to stay 500 feet away. Scot Peterson is currently receiving over $8,000 per month in pension benefits.

The solution to firearm violence is absolutely not more firearms!
By Aeshtron (222), Southampton on Dec 6, 18 2:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well, if you're guided by anecdotes, isolated incidents, and thin logic, your conclusion makes sense. Tell us, what steps would eliminate 'firearm violence'. Go ahead, be clear.
By MoronEliminator (158), Montauk on Dec 6, 18 2:21 PM
Moron, what’s your solution? More guns? Yeah, that’s logical. Or as you say, thin logic.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 6, 18 4:20 PM
2 members liked this comment
Solution to what? Murder? Execute the offenders. What's your solution? Disarm the law abiding?
By NateNewtown (61), east on Dec 6, 18 5:42 PM
So because one coward ran?
By Sturgis (468), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 7:53 AM
Over/under that they voted for Trump?
By johnj (918), Westhampton on Dec 6, 18 4:13 PM
Even if the alt left dream of legally disarming us came true, there would still be guns out there, how would you defend schools against crazy people with illegally owned guns wishing to do kids harm? As asked above, specifics please.
By bigfresh (3909), north sea on Dec 6, 18 4:43 PM
Is there a single elected official in federal government who supports repeal of the second amendment?

Go ahead and look, I'll wait.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 6, 18 5:06 PM
Fore, he will never post any facts. Just repeat what his master rush blabs daily.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 6, 18 5:10 PM
I know, but the objective of whackamole isn't to reason with the moles, it's to make them disappear temporarily.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 6, 18 5:37 PM
LOL, no, no currently elected official has stated they want to repeal the 2nd Amendment. In fact, Fore1gnBornHBgrown supports the Second Amendment, recognizing law abiding citizens have the right to possess firearms. So why not just clarify things for everyone FBHG, and state openly that you would never advocate banning the civilian ownership of firearms. In fact, since you advocate more and more and more 'gun safety' laws, why not just make your end game clear. At what point would further restrictions ...more
By NateNewtown (61), east on Dec 6, 18 5:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
When have I advocated for what gun control measures? To quote myself:

"I've just stopped proposing gun control because I no longer think it will have an effect; there are simply too many guns held by the public for meaningful legislation to stop one from falling into the wrong hands."

To be even more clear: I would not support a politician who proposes repeal of the second amendment and I think the Supreme Court decision interpreting the Second Amendment as an individual's right ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 6, 18 5:58 PM
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it."
Dianne Feinstein

She also supports restrictions to free speech and thinks it is legal ti hunt humans, a towering intellect of the Left.
By Preliator Lives (324), Obamavillie on Dec 7, 18 8:01 AM
1 member liked this comment
Dead on Nate. Notice the qualifiers in the response - "politician" and "home." Fore knows full well that policy of open repeal of the second amendment is political suicide for any politician. He prefers instead politicians who simply support gun (people) control - incrementally restricting second amendments rights vs. all out repeal of the second amendment as is the end game of 39% of Democrats who have abandoned the charade.


Dec 7, 18 8:19 AM appended by Po Boy
Well, "any politician" unless they're from a liberal bastion. Every now and then we get a glimpse of the true intent as we did in Feinstein. Oopsie!
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 7, 18 8:19 AM
SCOTUS has found that the 2A protects an individual's right to own a handgun in the home, but has also upheld a ban on sawed-off shotguns.

What's wrong with the belief that those decisions were made correctly?

How is "politician" a qualifier? Rephrased for the pendants: I would not support repeal of the second amendment.
Dec 7, 18 8:30 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Lol, Marlin gets so mad it's funny.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 8:30 AM
Thoughts and prayers. Feel better?
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 8:37 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By themarlinspike (77), southampton on Dec 7, 18 8:47 AM
1 member liked this comment
Thank you, to you as well.
Dec 7, 18 8:47 AM appended by Po Boy
Lol, let him speak marlin. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. Ephesians 4:18
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 7, 18 8:47 AM
Too bad that Feinstein quote was specifically about the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, not repeal of the 2A. Womp womp.
Dec 7, 18 9:10 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I will also echo Po Boy's response to Marlin: thank you Marlin, you too.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 9:10 AM
Your comments are painfully ignorant.
Dec 7, 18 9:51 AM appended by themarlinspike
An original thought would die of loneliness in your head.
By themarlinspike (77), southampton on Dec 7, 18 9:51 AM
And yours lack any substantive contribution or counterpoints. More caps lock and exclamation points, please.
Dec 7, 18 9:55 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Lol, more personal attacks please, they say more about you than me.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 9:55 AM
Po boy, you think Jesus would be packing heat?
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 3:28 PM
No. I think the mocking and ignorance leads to misdiagnosing that the problem is people, not inanimate objects and the very nature your mockery is actual part of the problem, that being, the removal of faith and morality throughout society - another of a long list of unintentional consequences of Liberalism.

So you see, Fred, you are part of the problem because you can't fix something that isn't correctly diagnosed.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 7, 18 6:54 PM
.... and "no" was in abject disagreement with your ignorant statement. To the question of whether I think Jesus would pack heat once again isn't the question to be asked. The question is, what gun WOULD He pack?" In fact, Jesus'’s disciples carried 
swords, and Jesus even said in some contexts the unarmed should arm themselves. But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one” Luke 22:36, ~ Jesus
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 7, 18 7:03 PM
Translation: The rising incidence and death toll of mass shootings is normal and our government should play no role in stemming it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 8, 18 6:11 AM
Po boy, I’m part of the problem? Maybe if the cdc were able to track gun violence for the last 20 yrs we would have a little insight on it. I’m willing to start a dialogue on gun violence.you on the other hand say there is nothing wrong and post psalms in your defense, thoughts and prayers is not a solution. It doesn’t offer comfort to families of mass murders, only comfort to the weak who are afraid of change.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 8, 18 7:26 AM
There is nothing "normal" about mass shootings, and sometimes government is not the answer. Anytime a PERSON is driven to commit such an act, they are - not normal. THAT is where solutions must begin.

Who said thoughts and prayers were a solution Freddy? Of course extending "thoughts and prayers" offers comfort, just as it does to anyone who loses a loved one. Gun violence is tracked. It's how being involved in a mass shootings can be characterized as highly unlikely in spite of approximately ...more
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 10, 18 10:22 AM
Hitler banned guns in Germany. Imagine how different the fate of 6 million Jews would be if they had arms to protect themselves. Just sayin....
By Taz (510), East Quogue on Dec 10, 18 10:33 AM
I noticed an absence of any suggestions in your comment, Po.

How do you think we can stop "not normal" people from being capable of mass shootings? Or do you think we shouldn't try?

I can't blame people who would rather compel the government to take action that suggest individuals think and pray on it.
Dec 10, 18 10:39 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
"THAN suggest individuals think and pray on it."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 10, 18 10:39 AM
I notice the reference to the absence of any suggestions that you've dismissed in the past, Fore.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 10, 18 2:51 PM
I'm not sure what you mean, I just want to know if you have any ideas other than naysaying everyone else's.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 10, 18 4:16 PM
Been there done that... dismissed... aka, naysayed, as noted.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 10:58 AM
I don't think you have, but if you're so chock full of ideas surely it wouldn't be so hard to share them here.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 11:09 AM
Of course we've been down this road prior. In fact, we've had this same round d'round multiple times. If it doesn't sink in once, what would make me think it would sink in the second, fourth or eighth time?

By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 2:09 PM
That's not my recollection and I think you're lying. If not, just repeat one specific suggestion that I've allegedly dismissed in the past.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 2:17 PM
Big duck, as soon as you start giving specifics to your bs posts, I’ll start giving specifics to you. In the mean time keep towing your line, good little foot soldier.
Dec 6, 18 5:05 PM appended by Fred s
Just to add. If you think it’s only people on the left that want to stop gun violence, you are delusional and out of touch with reality.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 6, 18 5:05 PM
Such a coward Fred. You want to see the end of the right to bear arms, to eliminate civilian ownership of guns (to, er, end 'gun violence'), due to the behavior of a miniscule fraction of people. Yet here you are, like your leaders, too cowardly to be honest with the people who's rights you intend to diminish. You'll only get what you want by incrementalism and deceit. Coward. Sniveling and cowering in the dark like the rest of the leftist cowards here. Come on, tell us, clearly and plainly what ...more
By MoronEliminator (158), Montauk on Dec 6, 18 5:49 PM
*whose
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 6, 18 5:59 PM
Moron, stop your whining bs.call me all the names you’d like. I never said I want to end the right to keep and bear arms, ever. I’ve been a gun owner for 40+ years moron. If you think ending gun violence means ending the second amendment, you are a moron and a fool. There is a common sense way to end this nonsense of gun violence. You moron are not part of the solution, but part of the problem. Grow up
Dec 6, 18 5:57 PM appended by Fred s
Typical pseudo-macho bs moron
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 6, 18 5:57 PM
So please enlighten us Bitter Freddy, what is your common sense way to end this nonsense of gun violence?
By bigfresh (3909), north sea on Dec 7, 18 6:16 AM
Big duck, let’s start with no one with mental issues gets a gun. People with domestic abuse problems don’t get guns. Or should we stick with your reasoning, burying your head in the sand?
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 6:57 AM
Oh Bitter Freddy if we are going to attack ppl with”mental issues” I suggest you pull your head out from the sand. Mental illness( or as you refer to it as “mental issues”) refers to a wide range of issues including anxiety , and eating disorders. Sounds absurd that someone who suffers from an eating disorder should not be allowed a gun bc of a mental illness. I would however suggest that angry ppl like yourself would require passing an Anger Test in order to obtain guns. ...more
By toes in the water (705), southampton on Dec 7, 18 7:35 AM
I’m not attacking anyone, and spare me the bitter Freddy. If you think I’m referring to people with eating disorders, you are mistaken. Look into most killings, mental health issues and domestic abuse issues. Parse all you want, it’s not forwarding a narrative, just clouding it. I’m familiar with the issues at hand.angry people like me? Get a grip
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 7:40 AM
Your very much attacking people. Your sitting at home watching the comments box waiting for someone to reply to you . You seriously need to go outside an get some fresh air, for a few days at least. All your comments speak for themselves. Whatever it is in your life that has you so u happy , I hope that changes for the better , for the sake of all of those around you.
By toes in the water (705), southampton on Dec 7, 18 7:48 AM
1 member liked this comment
Toes, I’m working, leave my house at 6 , home at 4. I’m countering nonsense posts on here. That’s all. I used to read the comments, no counter point to crazy posts. If you don’t like it, I can’t help you.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 8:06 AM
An eating disorder can have severe effects on the psyche - you should not discount such dis-orders Toes just b/c you think that they are not a big deal.

Same goes for anxiety.

Mental health issues + guns are a dangerous combination, often times for individuals who have both (suicide is real).
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (590), southampton on Dec 7, 18 10:20 AM
How would you deal with the guns already out there when it comes to school safety , the actual topic at hand? You seem to dismiss the idea of armed personnel out of hand, what's your solution?
By bigfresh (3909), north sea on Dec 7, 18 3:13 PM
How about banning the sale of hand guns. Everyone should be able to own a rifle to protect their property. Hand guns are mostly used to commit crimes.
By tenn tom (210), remsenburg on Dec 7, 18 7:26 AM
The Supreme Court has interpreted the 2A to guarantee an individual's right to own a handgun in the home.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 8:00 AM
a hand gun is a fine self defense weapon both in the home and when carried.
By bigfresh (3909), north sea on Dec 7, 18 3:56 PM
But only one of your examples has been articulated as a right protected by the 2A.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 4:06 PM
Not for long! Elections have consequences
By bigfresh (3909), north sea on Dec 7, 18 5:34 PM
You think SCOTUS will expand 2A? I suppose we'll see. Any particular appellate cases you're following?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 5:37 PM
Here's one. U.S. appeals court upholds right to carry gun in public. 24, 2018. Reuters. A federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday that the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment guarantees a right to openly carry a gun in public for self-defense, finding that Hawaii overstepped its authority to regulate firearms possession outside the home.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 10, 18 10:27 AM
Nice reference! SCOTUS previously declined to take up this specific question, but a new roster of justices may be more willing to hear out the plaintiff.

I'll be keeping an eye on this one (Young v. Hawaii).
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 10, 18 10:56 AM
Does anyone else feel very safe on the east end? I leave my front door unlocked, vehicles unlocked with keys inside the car and see people leave expensive bicycles unlocked in town all the time. If a stranger walked in my home unannounced I'd be likely to introduce myself, ask how they ended up in my house and offer them a cup of tea/snack.
By Aeshtron (222), Southampton on Dec 7, 18 10:23 AM
My sarcasm detector just went to 11.
By Preliator Lives (324), Obamavillie on Dec 7, 18 12:50 PM
Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 7, 18 5:30 PM
1 member liked this comment
Narcotics don't kill people on their own either but they're still controlled substances, go figure.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 5:31 PM
Guns are a controlled substance.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 10, 18 10:23 AM
1 member liked this comment
You did this last time. In your analogy, it wouldn't be the narcotics that killed people...it would be the needle that administered the drug that did.

Get it now?
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 7, 18 5:38 PM
Then I'll repeat my response from that time, though I don't expect an answer this time either: "Putting aside the fact that a person in possession of syringes, spoons and brillo can be charged with carrying drug paraphernalia, If you're only worried about the material within the syringe does that mean you'd be open to bullet-control legislation?"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 7, 18 5:46 PM
OH paleeze you all
By sgt202 (71), Hampton Bays on Dec 7, 18 9:23 PM
Anyone here willing to share their opinions on which is better in salty, muddy, freezing conditions: A Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500? I'm a physically strong, non-white radical libtard who has invisible ninja skills and a deep connection to the natural world : )
By Aeshtron (222), Southampton on Dec 8, 18 1:42 PM
My guess is probably whichever one feels bigger in your hands.
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 8, 18 1:56 PM
School shootings are part of the agenda. Pre meditated theatre to get non critical thinkers all riled up. The victims and survivors are paid actors. Your tax dollars hard at work!
By icecreamman (415), Southampton on Dec 9, 18 7:47 AM
1 member liked this comment
The victims...and survivors...and first responders...and doctors...

You have much more confidence in anyone's ability to sustain an elaborate lie than I do.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 9, 18 8:55 AM
Icecreamman, tell that to the families of the murdered children. You are example #1 why infowars is a dangerous and completely nuts “news “ site.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 9, 18 8:28 AM
I've got all sorts of pretty nice stuff -- properties, vehicles, sporting equipment, etc. I am a professional actor and contract with the New World Order, George Soros, theand others. I have played roles including "shooting victim" and "protestor". These contracts are well
By Aeshtron (222), Southampton on Dec 9, 18 9:49 PM
the illuminati reptilian have hijacked and censored my phone leading to incomplete messages. Critical Thinkers Please Apply!
By Aeshtron (222), Southampton on Dec 9, 18 9:52 PM
Did you fly to France with a "yellow vest" on too?? If you're planning on going, remind Macron that his country is burning and that he shouldn't have listened to Obama and Merkel all of those years. It's happening. Germany is next. Liberalism is a mental disorder. Socialism fails at every turn. Wake up sheeple!!!
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 9, 18 11:15 PM
Wait, are you saying the yellow vest protests are also a manufactured farce? Or is it just the mass shootings?

Please indulge us, Disease: how can we be enlightened critical thinkers like you?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 10, 18 6:48 AM
I was recently flown first-class to France with a group of paid yellow vest protestors. All expenses were paid and my daily stipend was €275 which covered some delicious vin e fromage. My four-star hotel in le quatrième arrondissement was paid for by my employers in advance. I had to fly home earlier than originally expected because I was needed to play a shooting victim here in the US where my group stages mass shootings more frequently than once a day. I am also sometimes employed ...more
By Aeshtron (222), Southampton on Dec 10, 18 11:07 AM
Gotta love that "great America", George Soros and his Open Society Foundations.
Dec 11, 18 2:49 PM appended by Po Boy
corrected: "great American"...
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 10, 18 2:49 PM
Critical thinkers sure sound flaky
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 10, 18 12:05 PM
That’s not flaky....THIS is flaky. Well, snowflaky that is:

“What a morning...”
8:00 I made a snowman.
8:10 A feminist passed by and asked me why I didn’t make a snow woman.
8:15 I made a snow woman.
8:17 The nanny of the neighbours complained about the snow woman's voluptuous chest.
8:20 The gay couple living nearby grumbled that it could have been two snowmen instead.
8:25 The vegans at No. 12 complained about the carrot nose, as veggies ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 10, 18 12:59 PM
You or one of your fellow posters put it up already. It was lame then, it’s lame now.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 10, 18 1:30 PM
1 member liked this comment
F em if they can't take a joke!
By bigfresh (3909), north sea on Dec 10, 18 5:32 PM
Nobody is bothered by your "joke" it's just not very funny or based at all in reality.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 10, 18 5:58 PM
Big duck, I laugh at all your posts, they are a joke.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 10, 18 6:19 PM
Triggered much? Sounds like at least 1 or 2 of those scenarios touched a nerve. It's a joke. Like haha? Thanks for helping me prove my point that the liberals of old are not the new liberals. The ones of old would've chuckled and moved on. Not this group....
By the way, how's Theresa May doing with Brexit? Heard Parliament laughed at her today...multiple times. Europe is falling apart at the seems. The big 3 are turning into Cuba and Venezuela as we speak....
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 10, 18 6:54 PM
Doesn't Brexit's imminent failure cut against the nationalist trend rather than in favor of it?

I think the "joke" is a lame attempt at characterizing liberals as something they aren't, but don't let me stop you from having fun.
Dec 10, 18 8:49 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I got one though: what's half white, half black, and orange all over? Trump in prison stripes!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 10, 18 8:49 PM
It was a repeat post. Your originality is front line. Keep fighting the fight.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 10, 18 8:00 PM
Same two....lmao
By icecreamman (415), Southampton on Dec 11, 18 5:58 AM
Icecreamman, to state one more time, I post to counter crazy posts on here. You fit the bill perfectly, conspiracy theories are your bread and butter. Your butter is margarine and your bread is stale. I find it hilarious that my posting amuses you, someday you will realize how crazy your nonsensical posts are, dangerous too, I might add. Pizzagate anyone?
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 11, 18 7:11 AM
"I post to counter crazy posts on here.'

LOL...THAT is crazy!
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 10:56 AM
1 member liked this comment
Well, yeah. I wouldn't want people to think some of the characters here represent all locals either. I certainly don't want people to think we all believe school shootings are false flag attacks like the "critical thinkers" (Icecreamman, Sturgis, et al).
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 11:15 AM
Well, when George Soros makes millions after anticipation of a momentary drop in stock price of a company where a mass shooting takes place, critical thinkers do tend to question that, or at minimum, with a raised eyebrow. Others, simple dismiss it as coincidence.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 11:38 AM
Connect the dots for us, Po: what are you suggesting?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 11:46 AM
I'm suggesting Soros made millions off a mass shooting. No, make that stating. What's the issue with finding that interesting?
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 2:06 PM
I'm sure lots of people benefit financially from tragedies. What is interesting about this instance in particular?

It sure sounds like you're alluding to something but avoiding saying it to not be painted with the same brush as the others.

In any event, independent readers can decide for themselves whether you are or aren't suggesting that mass shootings are false flag conspiracies.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 2:22 PM
I don't share the opinion that lots of people benefit in the same manner as a billionaire who funds anti-gun efforts. THAT is interesting. For the record, stated...and re-stated.

I'm sure the independent readers could care less how the issue is being painted - or not. That speaks more to your personal quest.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 2:46 PM
I suppose "interesting" is in the eye of the beholder. I'm just glad you're not propagating the conspiracy theory that mass shootings are false flag attacks.

We have enough of those people around.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 2:57 PM
Please don't take liberties with what I say and don't say.

That's lazy and disingenuous - for starters.

Ending your thought at beholder. would have been better served.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 3:03 PM
But you DIDN'T propagate conspiracy theories about false flag mass shootings, right?

If you did please let me know. Your fence-riding is not adding clarity to the discussion.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 3:15 PM
I'm suggesting Soros made millions off a mass shooting. No, make that stating. What's the issue with finding that interesting?

By Po Boy (3111), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 2:06 PM
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 12, 18 9:53 AM
You can find whatever you want interesting.

I'm just glad you're not propagating conspiracy theories about false flag attacks.

Isn't that a fair statement?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 12, 18 9:59 AM
Thanks Po boy, source of comment noted. For the record you don’t post conspiracy crap.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 11, 18 11:09 AM
You mean like the above?

Now if you could only learn to post on topic. Call me crazy.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 11:39 AM
Po boy, show some facts about your boogeyman soros, you are teetering on the edge yourself. What company? Name some of the actors involved in these false flag projects, can’t? Of course you can’t. For the record I’m rescinding my comment about you passing conspiracy theories.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 11, 18 11:48 AM
1 member liked this comment
You rescind your worthless opinion because some find it interesting that an rabid anti-gun radical billionaire who infused anti-second amendment groups billions, earns $73 million off of a mass shooting?

Who made you or any of the cabal the arbiter of interesting "coincidences?"






By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 2:04 PM
Again it sounds like you're stopping just short of saying you agree with the assertion that mass shootings are false flag conspiracies. If that's what you believe, why not just come out with it?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 2:23 PM
What I believe is what I stated. Why is that so difficult for you to simply accept?
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 2:35 PM
So you're not a proponent of the conspiracy theory that mass shootings are false flag attacks? Good. Those beliefs are disgusting.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 2:38 PM
Why is that so difficult for you to simply accept my statement....without adding your own adl lib conclusions that create something that was never said?
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 2:50 PM
Because you entered a conversation that was about false flag conspiracy theories propagated by several other users here.

I am inquiring if your support for one aspect of their theory, the alleged financial motive, is evidence of support for their broader theory.

If not, great!

If yes, I would question your intelligence.

That you cannot say one way or the other already speaks volumes.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 2:56 PM
Po boy, very interesting. Thanks for the insult about my opinion, point taken. Answer one thing. Did the cow jump over the moon before or after soros planned this whole thing, simple question.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 11, 18 2:59 PM
Here's what I do know to add to your mental goulash.

The unhinged Left is cold and calculated.
They are motivated and devious.
They will stop at nothing to move their agenda forward.
They would willingly accept and inflict collateral damage in their quest.
I trust nothing about them in their political motivations.

So when something of interest or "coincidence" occurs, don't blame those who think critically about the circumstances.

By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 11, 18 3:01 PM
Po boy, if that’s critical thinking, you are in big big trouble. If you think that’s normal thinking, you are adrift in a sea of bs, of your own making.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 11, 18 3:19 PM
I'm not blaming critical thinkers who are curious about coincidences, and I celebrate your inquisitive nature.

I do blame "critical thinkers" who propagate baseless conspiracy theories about false flag mass shootings.

If you say some billionaire obtained a financial benefit from a tragedy I'll take your word for it.

If you say it was a motive for perpetrating a false flag attack, I'd ask for corroborating evidence.

If you say a mass shooting was "pre meditated ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 3:24 PM
This is great stuff. You two are the pawns of the agenda that the looney left rely on.
By icecreamman (415), Southampton on Dec 12, 18 7:36 AM
And you think the families and friends of the victims and survivors, as well as the first responders and doctors who treated them, are all in on a conspiracy to cover up mass murder by the government.

THAT'S looney.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 12, 18 7:43 AM
Po Boy...you know what they say about arguing with liberals, right?
I can just see Fred and Fore1gn talking to you in a room and not being able to make eye contact with you like that spineless coward Schumer did today with our President. I hope he does shut it down now. Cryin’ Chuck looked like a little boy in grade school that was getting yelled at for pulling little Lucy’s hair in art class. Spineless, liberal punk.
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 11, 18 3:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
Diseased, grow up, and wipe that drool off, your embarrassing yourself.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 11, 18 3:17 PM
"I would be proud to shut down the government" - Donald Trump.

I can't believe he fell for that, and neither can the rest of Congress.

Just go ahead and look up their bipartisan reactions to the back-and-forth...hilarious.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 3:26 PM
If President Trump really wanted a wall it would be built already -- using the Coast Guard budget under the direction of the Department of Homeland Security.

I believe the Coast Guard exists to stop smuggling. Therefore they could have been tasked with building an anti-smuggling wall on the Mexican border 2 years ago. Instead, Coast Guard vessels and personnel are in the Persian Gulf between Saudi Arabia and Iran protecting rich Arab sheikhs from angry Persians.

It's all ...more
By dfree (587), hampton bays on Dec 11, 18 3:51 PM
The NRA receives considerable funding from RUSSIAN SPIES and is fully penetrated by Russian secret police funded by oligarchs who steal from the Russian people.

Don't take my word for it, take the word of the United States Justice Department:
"According to the affidavit in support of the complaint, from as early as 2015 and continuing through at least February 2017, Butina worked at the direction of a high-level official in the Russian government who was previously a member of the legislature ...more
By dfree (587), hampton bays on Dec 11, 18 3:11 PM
1 member liked this comment
@ Po Boy

Quote:

"Well, when George Soros makes millions after anticipation of a momentary drop in stock price of a company where a mass shooting takes place, critical thinkers do tend to question that, or at minimum, with a raised eyebrow. Others, simple dismiss it as coincidence."
-------------------------------------

What, PRECISELY, are you implying THIS time, Po Boy? That George Soros secretly LIKES mass-shootings? That he deliberately inflames unstable Right-Wing ...more
By highhatsize (3794), East Quogue on Dec 11, 18 3:21 PM
He won't actually come out and say it. Instead he'll hide behind words like "interesting" and "coincidence" when it's obvious what he's trying to imply.

He thinks by keeping the suggestion of a false flag conspiracy at arm's length he's keeping his nose clean, but whether or not he actually believes in it (let's face it, even the dumbest among us know bettter), he's not fooling anyone.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 11, 18 8:45 PM
What is it about you Leftists that you can't take a statement at face value?

A set of particulars is sometimes simply that... "Interesting."

Now, as you spin your brains into a tizzy, asked yourselves, "who are the conspiracy theorists?"
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 12, 18 9:48 AM
Yes, but WHAT is interesting about it, Po?

The way you avoid questions speaks volumes.
Dec 14, 18 9:53 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
And as usual, rather than confront the issue, Po has left the building.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 12, 18 9:53 AM
I blame the parents.
By themarlinspike (77), southampton on Dec 12, 18 9:53 AM
***BREAKING NEWS***

Multiple, reliable sources have confirmed Donald Trump has plans to step down as President of the United States, effective at Noon in Monday, January 20, 2025.
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 11, 18 8:19 PM
1 member liked this comment
I like when dopey fred calls posters moron....makes me giggle.
By Bayman3142 (193), Southampton on Dec 12, 18 12:07 AM
Batman, his name is moron eliminater , moron for short. Giggle away. I like it when you post facts on crime that aren’t backed up by facts. You can call me dopey if it makes you feel smarter.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 12, 18 7:52 AM
1 member liked this comment
"I like it when you post facts on crime that aren’t backed up by facts."
Dopey.

"1.Left wing terrorists are killing at a rate of 2.6 to 1 since 2016.

First, look at the year I referenced, the year everything that could have gone wrong for little snowflakes who bought into the democrat con job that made mother Hillary your candidate and left the rest of us with the lesser evil.

So, how many left and right terrorists murders occurred SINCE 2016. You should know, ...more
By Bayman3142 (193), Southampton on Dec 12, 18 8:39 AM
Your lame disingenuous argument based on such a narrow time frame proves nothing. Keep calling me names, also, try to cite sources for your facts. Smart guy like you should know that.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 12, 18 9:14 AM
1 member liked this comment
I wonder why you didn't cite your data?

Probably because it ends in August of 2017 before six of the deadliest 25 mass shootings since 1949.

Among them is the 2017 Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, where a right-wing terrorist killed 11.

Your dates also exclude the 2015 Charleston church shooting, where a right-wing terrorist killed 9.

Basically, your entire comment is deceptive.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 12, 18 9:26 AM
Excellent, keep the name calling going, your self esteem should get a little better.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 12, 18 8:50 AM
Your fly is open and you have toilet paper stuck to your shoe.
By themarlinspike (77), southampton on Dec 12, 18 9:52 AM
In total, extremists killed at least 34 people in 2017. The far-right accounted for 59% of these deaths, or 20 deaths. The report linked several killings to the alt-right movement, which expanded and moved its operations from the internet into the physical world last year. The chaos in Charlottesville, where a counter-protester, Heather Heyer, was killed and dozens were injured after a car driven by a white supremacist plowed into a group of pedestrians, marked the return of neo-Nazi street confrontations. ...more
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 12, 18 9:12 AM
Salads wounded and killed more people than Ar15s last month.
By Po Boy (3146), Water Mill on Dec 12, 18 9:50 AM
And, just like Bayman above, you've found parameters that make your data sound good. Kudos!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 12, 18 10:01 AM
DRUGS are killing your kids - their lives, their futures and their potential - but you stick your heads in the sand on that subject for how many year? How many generations? Drugs and alcohol - the dynamic duo of death. Instead, you ask for guns - the fake protector of children. Not one single school guard has stopped an attack. Not one single gun packing individual has stopped any other mass murder in America, but you think this will protect your kids? Before a single gun is permitted into a school, ...more
By Dodger (156), Southampton Village on Dec 12, 18 11:16 AM
Can one of you libbies explain why "Baby It's Cold Outside" is being banned but the female rapper Cardi B can release a song where she raps about someone eating her where the sun doesn't shine? Don't mean to be gross....it's a serious question.
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 12, 18 9:07 PM
I can't speak to the proclivities of the latter, but the some say the former is problematic because a person makes repeated advances and coercive statements after hearing "the answer is no."

Obviously the song is from a different era, but how would you feel if your daughter was persistently pursued after telling someone "the answer is no"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 12, 18 9:36 PM
I don't necessarily agree with the ban but if you can't tell the difference between the two then there's no point in explaining it to you.
By johnj (918), Westhampton on Dec 13, 18 1:43 PM
1 member liked this comment
I'll take a guess at what the difference is: one appears to demonstrate a clear example of consent in the form of a request to "eat her where the sun doesn't shine" while the other doesn't!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 13, 18 2:17 PM
What about the Big Sean/Eminem rap song "No Favors"? Talks of rape and beating women? Baby it's Cold Outside is still worse? This is obviously all tongue in cheek here. It's just absolutely amazing how liberals don't EVER see or admit to their own hypocrisy. Amy Schumer, Sarah Silverman and Chelsea Handler...3 of the biggest liberal women out there can talk badly about gays but Kevin Hart can't? Hypocrisy!! The ENTIRE Democrat/Liberal/Socialist agenda is hypocritical and disgusting
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 12, 18 10:41 PM
I don't think I gave any opinion on any song you mentioned other than "Baby it's cold outside" because that's the only one I've heard.

As for Kevin Hart, why was he so resistant to apologizing despite having done so in the past? What's so wrong about having a gay son?
Dec 12, 18 10:48 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
As for you, what's so hard about owning up to the blurred lines of consent in the Dean Martin song? Why can't you just admit that, despite its catchy tune, the song portrays outdated gender stereotypes and teaches listeners that no doesn't always mean no?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 12, 18 10:48 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Bayman3142 (193), Southampton on Dec 13, 18 12:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
Do you remember why he posted negatively about Trump? Wasn't it because Trump wasn't radical enough?

Point is, if you don't couch your data in very tight parameters, your entire point is undermined.

Womp womp.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 13, 18 5:50 AM
Fore, let him go. In society it’s best sometimes to let guys like him spout. I can take his childish name calling, it’s for the good of everyone. He is obviously suffering from very low self esteem. Let him have his time.
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 13, 18 5:58 AM
While I do see value in airing even the most incorrect opinions, part of that value comes in the form of the scrutiny those views face while under the public eye.

I have no doubt Bayman will remain unconvinced.

My hope is that other readers who stumbled upon his previous post and thought "he might be right" will read on and see how his point crumbled under scrutiny, then all he had left was personal attacks.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 13, 18 6:05 AM
Batman, your doing good getting your low self esteem up. If that’s what’s needed, the name calling, I’m good with it. We need your petty name calling to continue. Good job little guy.hey give us some left wing violence updates, maybe for the time time period between 1:45 and 2 am this am. You’re a smart guy, forge ahead.
Dec 13, 18 5:30 AM appended by Fred s
Batboy, please ask your mom to feed you some bananas, you seem bound up. That could explain a lot .
By Fred s (1663), Southampton on Dec 13, 18 5:30 AM
Fore, open the data to the start of the nation, Democrats were by far the leaders of political violence. The two of you are so fragile.

2nd ammendment is here to stay, besides the fact changing it will just allow the black market for guns richer.

Protecting our children by placing trained armed guards makes perfect sense, and as of right now, the easiest and quickest way to do so before another tragedy.

You two can't see past a lost election and would rather not protect ...more
By Bayman3142 (193), Southampton on Dec 13, 18 9:24 AM
1 member liked this comment
Thanks for the ad hominem! Please keep changing your parameters to fit your view as necessary!

My only point is that your choice to start in 2016 and end in August of 2017 paints an incomplete picture by excluding several high-profile right-wing terrorist incidents.

As for armed guards in schools, I don't think I've ever opposed the idea.

As for "Baby it's cold outside", it's still on my Christmas playlist at home and I continue to enjoy the song with open eyes on its ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 13, 18 9:51 AM
2 members liked this comment
C’mon Fore1gn, I thought you were more observant and intelligent to give such a vanilla answer. Conspiracy theories aside, I can tell you how many conservatives view it. The subversion of the way society was (started by Obama) and the pushback by Trump and his supporters. Period. This falls in line with the taking down of statues. The dismantling of anything old and white specifically. Hope you can handle the truth because I don’t give much thought to ideals anymore.
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 13, 18 11:36 AM
It's unclear what response you called vanilla because you're not using the "reply" button to place it in context.

In any event, PLEASE tell me the truth: if your son's sexual advances were met with "the answer is no" (a lyrics from the song) is it acceptable for him to continue coaxing and cajoling his desired partner into physical intimacy?

I can accept that the language in the song conveys a confused perception of consent and still enjoy it when it comes on the radio, why can't ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 13, 18 2:14 PM
Those who enter the country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law. We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.
By DiseaseDiocese (236), Riverhead on Dec 14, 18 10:07 PM
Proper counsel is the last thing anyone should lack in a free world.
By Mr. Z (10707), North Sea on Dec 14, 18 11:29 PM
Lol, nice change of topic when the conversation isn't going how you'd like!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (4791), HAMPTON BAYS on Dec 15, 18 11:03 PM
gurney's, new year's eve, celebration, montauk